Sustainability and me: What’s your WHY? with Jae

This episode was transcribed with ai technology from otter.ai.  Please excuse any typos or incorrect language.

Brandy Montague 0:00
Welcome to episode number 36 of the For Animals For Earth podcast. Sustainability, what is your why? with Jae.

Jae 0:10
So it’s kind of about appreciating and balancing, where you are an individual and kind of doing what you can while also having to acknowledge where our systems have failed us and how we can work within them, and outside of them to push us all forward.

Brandy Montague 0:30
That was my friend Jae from the In Omnia Paratus Podcast. Jae and I had been talking a few months ago about the nuances that exist in sustainability and how there truly is no one size fits all solution for any of the problems that we’re facing right now with helping animals, or helping the environment. We both felt like there’s not enough forums where that conversation is happening and where we are talking to each other on an individual level about what works in our lives, and why those things work for us, and what fuels our passion to keep wanting to make a difference on those specific things.

Brandy Montague 1:18
And so as we were talking about wishing we could have more conversations like this, we ended up deciding to do like a show exchange. So she invited me to come on her show In Omnia Paratus and on her show, we talked about the intersection between sustainability and ableism, between sustainability and classism, and we just had a, you know, down to Earth, honest conversation about some of the harder parts of sustainability and what could maybe be a way to navigate those. And then, I invited her to come onto my show to continue that conversation and to share with you some of the conversations that she had I had been having back and forth, just about the way that our individual lives have formed our opinions about what the best path is for sustainability.

Brandy Montague 2:20
And so we decided to bring some of those topics on to the show here with you today and I hope that you enjoy, you know, listening in and being a part of this conversation. The simple idea for today’s episode is to foster more conversation with the people in your life about sustainability, and if you are at all interested in having this conversation with Jae and I have two cool, interesting ways to do that. So the first is Jae and I are going to be hosting a clubhouse room together. On Tuesday, March 30 at 12 o’clock noon Pacific Standard Time. So if you happen to be on the clubhouse app, and you are willing to join us. We would really love to have you for that conversation, it’s called Sustainability & me: what is your why? And if you are not already connected to me on clubhouse, you can find me under Brandy Heyde Montague, and I will make sure that you are set up to be able to join us on Tuesday.

Brandy Montague 0:10
And then the second cool way that you can get involved is by leaving me a voice memo. The software that I use to broadcast to the podcast actually has functionality where you can call in and leave a voicemail, and it’s super easy to do you go to anchor.fm/ForAnimalsForEarth and you’ll see a thing that says, Leave a message. So what I would love for you to do is I would love for you to go and leave me a message telling me what is your why. What makes you want to help animals, and the planet? What about your life has formed your passion for doing that? And I’m hoping to create a RoundUp episode where we can all hear what each other’s why’s were, and I feel like that’ll just be so exciting and inspirational and such a great way for us to connect. So, to join in the conversation, you could either join us on Tuesday on clubhouse if you happen to have that app. And if you don’t, you can go to anchor.fm/ForAnimalsForEarth and leave me a voice message that I will add into a RoundUp episode to follow up on this. Okay guys, for everything for today, all of the links I just talked about the show notes, the transcripts, all that good stuff. You can find that at ForAnimalsForEarth.com/podcast/36.

Brandy Montague 2:24
Hi there this is Brandy and you’re listening to the For Animals For Earth podcast. This is a space where we inspire each other, to take small steps every day to live a more conscious life helping the animals and the planet, while we do it. I’m so glad that you’re here, let’s all take a deep breath, and let’s get started in in your life,

Brandy Montague 5:17
Jae, I wonder if there are things that you have noticed if there’s anything that sticks out right off the top of your head as being one of the main reasons that you have a passion now for doing something to help the environment, or help animals?

Jae 5:42
I feel like part of growing up is just kind of, when you know more you want to do more. So for me, one of my five goals has always to be has always been to be a parent one day, and hearing people around my age and a little bit older, second guess that, because of what our world could come to has definitely opened my eyes, in a way that other things haven’t and it’s not that I haven’t cared prior to this, but I think it really takes a personal note for people to kind of get that really big fire and wanting to advocate and wanting to put their time, money and effort and use their platforms to speak on such things because without that, it’s all kind of a concept like we’re running out of water, we’re running out of fresh air, carbon, our atmosphere is doing this but it’s like, there’s so many things going on. Systemically globally, it can be very overwhelming as a concept bonus when it hits closer to home. I feel that’s when you start implementing changes, and therefore can influence other people by your own actions.

Brandy Montague 7:05
I love how you just worded that like so eloquently, and I absolutely agree. I think there is something in each of us that if we’ve gotten to a point that we want to do something to make a difference. There’s something that triggered that or caused that. And you mentioned, children. So is it, is there a lot of conversation happening. I mean, so I will say, okay, I have children right, so there’s a lot of conversation happening among parents that, what do we do like how do we help our kids grow up being good stewards of the earth, and treating other humans and other animals with compassion. But there’s also a big fear of what is the earth even going to look like for them. When my children are my age, or when I’m, you know, my grandma’s age and my children, yeah I guess then they’re my age, you know, but then I have potentially grandchildren or great grandchildren, what’s the world going to look like for them. Is that the type of conversation that you’re talking about just kind of that fear of what it might look like and are people considering not having children because of that.

Jae 8:19
Yeah, so the first time I heard something like this, it was a relatively prominent political figure around my age was doing an Instagram Live and brought this point up about I don’t even know if I want to have kids. And then I saw because of that comment and the fact that she said it a lot of news media kind of picked it up and was like, Is this being dramatic? And then kind of doing, not enough because it was very overwhelming, with doing a little bit of research into what the world could look like in 15-20 years because it’s not just, you don’t want to just have the kids and then be like, we’ll figure it out after once they’re here. God willing, they’re gonna live a long healthy life. But if the world they’re coming into is already decaying at such a rapid rate that they might not have that. Are you really giving those humans the best shot, rather than fulfilling a personal need. Sorry, that’s really deep.

Brandy Montague 9:24
No I was just gonna say I feel like that is a really profound way to look at it and a very selfless way to look at it. I don’t know how many people really think about, like you said just jumping in versus saying, Okay, well, like, Do I feel pretty confident that I can set my children up with a bright future, before making the decision to have children. I mean I feel like that’s just really commendable and and I feel like really, really selfless in thinking that way. And like you said, you know, it’s kind of hard because it talks about the problem but it doesn’t really provide a lot of good solutions does it? You know it’s like then you start thinking about all of these different reasons that maybe we shouldn’t have children, but then how do we, how do you come to terms with what is the solution. And do you find that people, it just kind of fuels the fire for we all need to do something?

Jae 10:31
Definitely did personally like to practice it as much as I have and having those thoughts. I’m someone who’s wanted a big family Cheaper by the Dozen style since I was a very young child, so there would be it would need to be a very serious internal thing for me to not have kids, I really want to have children. However, that’s why I’m personally trying to do what I can and research environmentalism and sustainability because I want kids and I want to have a planet that they can exist on. As opposed to, I’d rather find a way so that I can have kids successfully than to just give up and be like, well, I’d rather live my life the way I am today as opposed to cutting back on laundry, looking into sustainable consumer options or looking into other things. I’d rather put in, kind of the work and invest now so that I can invest in my kids later down the road. So that’s the kind of the conversations I’ve been looking in, but I feel that I am known to be very type A, very perfectionist and when I kind of go down a rabbit hole, I can very easily get overwhelmed. And sustainability is a very large rabbit hole as you know when we discussed it on my podcast. There were a lot of points, a lot of articles that we all pulled for it, and the more you look into one, it’s like, oh well, water, and then it’s like, okay, well, it’s not just water is water and then carbon going into the atmosphere and it’s not just carbon going into the atmosphere, it’s the water to make meat and like…

Jae 12:06
One that really discouraged me, and it can sound pretty superficial at the beginning is I’m someone who personally prefers the taste of almond milk in their coffee to begin with. I’m not a big milk drinker, big ice cream fan, but I actually like the way almond milk tastes better. And I remember when there was this phase of people being like almond milk takes almost as much water comparable to regular milk. So yes, You’re not using the dairy, but then you’re using so much more water to get the almond milk, and then it’s like, it was a chart of like all of the non dairy milks and their water content usage so it’s, you try to switch one thing and then there’s another environmental factor equally as important to need to consider and so it’s very easy to try to find simple small solutions, but also, when those simple small solutions reverberate in another area of sustainability, it becomes even more overwhelming.

Brandy Montague 13:11
You know, it’s, that’s so true and I think that having that anchor of your why, like your reason that you started caring in the first place. I can see how that is something that can help carry you through. For me, I think it’s animals, you know, it started with me when I was three on the farm and ever since then, that that’s a very, like, animal cruelty and trying to stop animal cruelty is kind of like my strongest why among everything else. And it does help to have something that you kind of fall back and you go… Okay wait, I don’t want to give up. I want to at least try. But like you said it is so, so hard on all of these different factors and you think you found something and you’re doing it and it’s like yeah this is making a difference and then there’s it. I feel like on most initiatives, I can find something, if I wanted, I could Google and find a reason that I shouldn’t do that thing. And so I have really constantly gone back and forth on this balance in my personal life of like when I learn new information, you know, deciding okay, am I going to change what I’m doing or am I going to keep what I’m doing, but how do I make sure I do one of those two things instead of just giving up and kind of saying there’s no point. So yeah, so I love that you’ve shared that because I really think that’s something that probably everybody relates to that is going through, trying to make a difference.

Brandy Montague 14:53
So recently, there’s been a lot of, I guess what I would say and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. There’s been a lot more awareness of anti Asian sentiment, here in the US. And I think from what I’ve heard from friends over the years that it’s not a new thing. But I do think in the past week, it’s much more well known. And you and I have talked about this a little bit and how I think stereotypes against Asian people intersect with sustainability and how that intersection can continue to feed anti Asian sentiment. And I thought maybe we could talk about that a little bit today because I know you identify as an Asian woman, and I would love, well actually as American Asian woman right? And actually I would love for you to even just correct me on those two things. And to just share a little bit about yourself and your culture and then a little bit about what you and I have talked about where you think that that sustainability specifically could be hurting the relationship between American Asian people and other Americans.

Jae 16:17
Definitely. So I say Asian American. I do know some people who say American first. I think it’s a personal preference thing. I guess, for me I say Asian American, due to the fact that if I’m walking down the street, you’re gonna know I’m Asian before you know I’m American. So that’s kind of just the way I see it. And additionally, I mean I think this is obvious but just I’m used to disclaiming for my own podcast. I am not speaking for every Asian in America, I know there’s a diverse group of thought and I frankly when Brandy asked me to be on this podcast, I did my own research into Asian Americans and sustainability because I really did only know my experience.

Jae 17:04
I am adopted into a predominantly white family. So, I myself am Asian American, but I don’t necessarily have a quote unquote normal Asian American experience which is why I wanted to do some research into people who are more culturally involved and have been brought up with that. Because I think my view was not the typical one so trying to make sure I’m even educating myself on the Asian experience is also very important.

Jae 17:38
I think the thing with Asian stereotypes, particularly that’s so hard, is they haven’t been looked at, negatively because they’re not very negative stereotypes, some of the ones I come up with. They eat rice. Okay, that’s just a. That’s just the thing. And then they’re good at math. I don’t know anyone who’s like, oh you’re good at math that makes you lame like that. And then also, there have been a lot of charts I’ve seen in past years where it’s like they kind of take for every dollar a white male makes and then they rank everyone else Asian women are right under white men and Asian men are slightly above white men. So another stereotype that is not a, a harmful or a bad one in society, it looks like something that, look what Asians are doing, they’re set, they’re setting themselves up they’re succeeding there’s… That’s where their standards are.

Jae 18:38
And what I think can be harmful about that is, we’re very, I think, if anything has kind of been shown us over the last five, six years in sentiment. We have a very difficult time, Americans, or humans, I don’t know, have a very difficult time holding multiple things to be true. So when one of the stereotypes against Asians is they’re financially set, they’re able to pull themselves up from their bootstraps, and look at them succeeding and thriving in business and tech and stem. When it comes to other comments such as name calling and microaggressions, it can very easily be dismissed because it’s like, well, on a large scale Asians are doing fine. The model minority myth Asians are fine, Asians are succeeding, and the Why isn’t really looked into as well why are Asians succeeding, higher rates than other groups or what barriers do Asians not have or what about their culture is different. So I feel like all of those factors can kind of add in to anti Asian sentiment, and why it’s been harder for people to see until now.

Jae 19:57
I think it does, like we said earlier take something personal, and I think watching what happened in Atlanta, kind of shook a lot of people. And in terms of specifically in terms of sustainability, this is, it’s an Asian stereotype, which has been proven false, but I think it’s a good example of how Asians eat dogs, which, again, has been proven false is not a thing. However, it’s a great example to me of culture clashing and moral high grounding. I don’t, I don’t think it’s right to eat dogs. I would never, but it’s also why are we not as outraged for the cows or for pigs or for other animals? Similarly, when straws became a big topic, the sea turtles. Everyone went all out for sea turtles, and it’s like, acknowledging, not that any one animal is less or more valuable because in our ecosystem. You shouldn’t be ranking animals. Just because you have a dog at home, that is what’s going to outrage you, as opposed to factory farming and other things.

Jae 21:08
So to me, that is just kind of one of the more negative stereotypes specifically in sustainability, that we should look a little bit more internally about and how. No, I would never eat a dog, but what else am I eating and condone going on in this country?

Brandy Montague 21:28
Yeah, there’s so much in what you just said, let me start here from the end. So yeah you know I, I love that point about dog, dog meat and eating dogs because it’s, that’s a conversation that I have actually had a lot in my life as well. I don’t know why it has come up so much, I think it came up more when we lived in Japan. It’s not a common Japanese thing, but I do think it being more common in China and Korea, I think maybe it just came up more in conversation. Probably also from friends traveling over there and coming back to Tokyo or whatever. But I, you know, it’s interesting because I always had the same thought. I was like, Well, why is it bad to eat dog, but it’s not bad to eat pig or cow or horse, you know like all of these other meats?

Brandy Montague 22:26
I think the point that you made, I just really really love, and I want to highlight, and I think we should talk about more, is that what we believe and what we see as wrong… And I think like you said, it’s, it can be a very very strong moral feeling inside someone that something is wrong, but I think peeling back that layer and recognizing that that comes from our own life, and our own conditioning. So if we have a dog as a pet, we’re going to see a dog very differently than a pig that we may not have as a pet. And then the next person who has a pig as a pet is good to see a pig very differently than a cow. You know it’s so different based on the way that we have grown up and what we have seen and just what even I guess as an adult, we choose to bring into our lives that frames so much of what our view is on what is the moral high ground.

Brandy Montague 23:33
The beginning then also of what you said, I feel like is really important. Which is, you know, we’re kind of talking about like, oh, there are trends, or there are certain things that seem common for Asian people or certain things that seem common for Asian American people, and certain things that seem common for Americans that are non Asian people. And we’re kind of like acting like there’s these different trends that can be believed in which we call stereotypes. And I, I often find with myself that I do think, you know stereotypes are just something that we probably automatically do as humans that help us kind of navigate life. But I kind of feel like they, they’ve caused more harm than they do good because it does make us stop thinking of people as individual people, and thinking of people as groups of people and just assuming that everyone who happens to have that characteristic is going to represent that. So I really appreciate you know that part of, of what you said in the beginning as well. Do you find this type of conversation to be something that you’re having often, around just how complex individuals are and how there’s so much that makes us up and what our values would be, because of that?

Jae 25:06
I think there are conversations that happen just as one gets older, kind of with that whole quarterlife crisis. What am I, what’s my purpose here, what do I want to be doing, what are my goals… From kindergarten through high school, at least in America, it’s very structured. You’re very set on a path, you go from elementary school to middle school to high school and then now, probably because right now trade schools are not valued the way they should be in this country, you go to college, you need to go to university, you need a degree, and then now you need a master’s in a PhD and everything like a master’s is the new bachelor’s degree. And after you’re out of that pipeline, you’re just kind of supposed to get it, and people act like well, you’ll figure it out, I figured it out. So I think that is difficult, and I think quarantine has taught us all. Ideally kind of to be more self reflective.

Jae 26:03
And I think intersectionality is a term that I’m sure it’s been around but I only sort of started hearing, and using. And I think that with everything that went on in 2020, it’s caused a lot of conversations, comfortable, uncomfortable, internal, external about these issues and how they all culminate in something that I know you were saying about kind of seeing people as individuals and versus groups. I feel it can be a bit of a double edged sword, where we are in society. Because yes, I am my own individual, and I have my own Asian American experience. However, for instance, when I’m walking down the street and someone has negative stereotypes about Asians… I can say I was adopted, I grew up in an American household, I have these things like, it’s not me. But because I look Asian and if that’s what’s in their head, that’s there. So it’s kind of about appreciating and balancing, where you are as an individual and kind of doing what you can, while also having to acknowledge where our systems have failed us and how we can work within them, and outside of them to push us all forward.

Brandy Montague 27:32
One nice thing to come out of the quarantine is that, I do think this is so much more of a conversation. And to your point, a lot of the systems that are there, and the stereotypes, are coming out more and more well known right? Because people are at least open to the conversation and open to hearing feelings. And I kind of feel like I don’t know if you’re seeing this as well, but I feel like people are sharing their feelings more easily now, as well. It’s almost like the world’s platform has opened up a little bit to recognize that we all have feelings. Everyone hurts when these stereotypes are put against them, and being able to like share those out loud and then other people can hear them. I also feel like that’s kind of changed over the past year or two.

Jae 28:26
Definitely. I think for a lot of people of color. Again, I’m not speaking for everyone but from the group of people of color I’ve surrounded myself with and who I follow on social media who I’ve heard. When you’re in predominantly white spaces there is a little bit of assimilation that goes on. And it’s something that you and your POC community just, or BIPOC community, know you just have to do, you just know that’s how you move through spaces, you know it’s how you’re safe to move through spaces. So when something like this comes on and luckily I think a lot of non-POCs are kind of asking and being willing to hear and listen. They’re like, their peers or friends or, oh you deal with that? It’s like, well I do, I just never brought it up because it’s not, it wasn’t, I didn’t think it was something we would talk about. It was just understood.

Jae 29:26
One of the movies I watched that I know is based on a book, “The Hate You Give”, about a girl in LA whose friend get shot by the police, police brutality, kind of thing protesting young people… But in the trailer she talks about code switching. I had never heard what code switching was. She was a young black girl. And it’s the way that, particularly black communities, move and speak differently throughout white communities. And if you’ve only seen a black person in a dominantly white space, you might not have any clue about the struggles, the microaggressions, things they’re facing because until recently it didn’t seem like people outside of the communities facing the oppression were willing, and or capable, of having those conversations.

Brandy Montague 30:20
Can I ask you, in the conversations that you’ve had with your friends, were these conversations happening in the past, a lot? Were the conversations happening just not with white people, or is it all of this conversation is becoming a conversation more recently? I’m just curious.

Jae 30:42
Um, I think, not to be super diplomatic here, I think it’s both. I think it depends if it was brought up or not. I think, personally, one of the things that I’ve had conversations with over the years is the way certain POC’s, respond to the question. “Oh, what are you?” And in my personal life experience, I never took offense to that question, nor did I understand it. I think it was a bit naive on my part. And I would always respond right back to the typically non POC person. Oh, like where are you from? And if they said American, I would always continue to ask questions because in my brain, unless you are Native American, your family goes back to another country, and I’m curious about the heritage of the other country your family’s from. However, some of my other friends who are POC, that question holds a lot more weight because it implies a lack of validity of being in the space, which I was fortunate to not experience in that way. So I have had these conversations, and I think it depends on the community. My mother has always been very active for the environment, for civil rights, she was the first girl to wear jeans at her high school and got like suspended for it. Like so that, there are plenty of white Americans who I know do care and who are educated and who are part of that conversation.

Jae 32:24
I think what the shift is, is learning to uplift those voices, instead of just kind of. I think there’s a big. There’s kind of two sides to this. Is it more effective to uplift the POC voices, or for white people to go back to their spaces of dominantly white people and help them hear it in a much more palatable way. And I don’t think there’s a right answer. Similarly to sustainability. I don’t think there’s a right answer.

Jae 33:02
I don’t know if Brene Brown coined this quote, or where it comes from, but “Done is better than perfect.” Effort is better than non effort, and you might not get it right. However, not getting it right means that an attempt was made. And I hope we can all show each other grace during this time of transition, because the world, literally is on fire, at least California.

Brandy Montague 33:29
Isn’t that true? This just shows like, I feel like you and I could sit here and talk for another three hours, about the intricacies of this and the depth of it you know? And I’m also finding myself wanting to do that. I don’t know how many other people are out there wanting to do it, but something that Jae and I are going to do at least once, maybe more, is host a conversation on clubhouse for those of you who are listening and are watching and want to be a part of the conversation too. So that we can all talk to each other. Because right now, like Jae and I can talk to each other and exchange thoughts. And like I said forever we probably could. But also, I know I want even more people in the conversation, and I think you do too.

Jae 34:23
Definitely.

Brandy Montague 34:25
And so that is something that we do want to invite everybody to, to join us on Clubhouse for the conversation. We did not pick a specific time yet. I just realized, so you can follow, follow both of us, if you are on clubhouse, and it’ll be sometime next week. So I’m on clubhouse at Brandy Heyde Montague or BrandyHMontague, and how can they follow you, Jae?

Jae 34:51
That is a great question. I’m not sure what my clubhouse is.

Brandy Montague 34:56
Come follow me, and then I’ll help you find Jae.

Jae 34:59
Yeah, there, I have so many usernames. I grew up with Neopets and My space and like a Totally Spies page, and like all of those old like Club Penguin, that I’m sure I have a user for somewhere. I can’t keep track of them all.

Brandy Montague 35:14
You know it’s funny because I just tried to change by clubhouse to For Animals For Earth because when I signed up, I wasn’t really thinking about it, but I really want… For me, most of my social media is For Animals For Earth but it’s too big. It’s too long and I can’t change it! So anyway, you guys can find me Brandy Heyde Montague, and we’ll find you to the right place.

Brandy Montague 35:36
And also, something else that I realized that I have available here with the podcast is that you can call in and you can leave a voice memo. And actually probably people could call in live too, but I don’t know how to do that! So maybe we’ll figure that out at some point, but you can call and you can leave a voice memo. And I would love to, if anyone is listening to this conversation and would like to share, like, let’s make an easy question: What has influenced you the most in your life as it relates to sustainability and animal welfare? What do you feel has influenced you most?

Brandy Montague 36:18
And if anybody wants to leave a voice memo about that, you go to anchor. Let me get it right anchor.fm/ForAnimalsForEarth, and it’s very easy there to leave voice memos. So if anybody is interested in joining in the conversation, those are two options. I would really, really love you to come join us on clubhouse for the conversation. And if you don’t have clubhouse, which I know a lot of people don’t, you could join in with the voice memo, which is a fun thing that we can try to.

Brandy Montague 36:50
I wonder if you’ll share one idea from what you’ve seen in your life, one simple idea that you think people could try, if they want to make a difference for animals in the environment?

Jae 37:03
I think one of the simplest switches, people can make is to deal with the packaging of their products. Not in terms of when you get a box shipped to you, but the form such as like shampoo bars, bamboo toothbrushes, glass instead of plastic, paper instead of plastic, all of those kinds of things for whatever products you’re normally buying. Bringing bags to the grocery store with you is a very simple one. But my one addendum to this, which I know we mentioned on my podcast too, that I think is the important part. Use what you have already first, before you want to make those sustainable switches, Because then you’re wasting money and product that is now already in your possession. So when I go to make sustainable switches, I make sure, okay, I like using this face wash, however, it’s plastic, it comes in a bunch of plastic. I know, I mean, it happens that I love, one that’s greener and cleaner, and it comes in a paper box, but the bottle is glass. So, because I love it, and it’s also good for the environment, I just continue to buy that one.

Jae 38:17
So I think it’s using whatever you have, and then look for small switches to be more sustainable because, especially here everything comes down to the dollar. And if everyone is switching to brands with more glass or more paper or recycled packaging, more ethically made, more brands are going to invest there.

Brandy Montague 38:42
What’s the best way to find you? Is it through your podcast?

Jae 38:45
Probably through the podcast, or through our Instagram. Millennials. It’s @InOmniaPod, because In Omnia Paratus was taken, unfortunately.

Brandy Montague 38:58
So, @InOmniaPod on Instagram. Okay, perfect. And, yeah, and then the, the podcast is called In Omnia Paratus and Jae mentioned this a couple of times, but she and I, and her co host Angela, did a podcast episode together a few weeks ago, all about this kind of same topic, but a little bit of a different lens about intersections between sustainability and ableism, sustainability and classism, just talking about lots of different ideas that we could come up with in that conversation that we might be able to try or anyone listening. So go follow Jae’s podcast so that you can see that when it comes out, and I’ll link to it in the show notes once it’s out, too. And, yeah, is there anything else that you want to share?

Jae 39:50
I think, well, first, thank you for having me on. This was my first time guesting. It’s definitely a different muscle than hosting. And I think just reiterating that impact versus intent. So, sometimes your intent is there and the impact misses. And rather than taking it personally, look at it as a challenge to do better so that next time the intent hits, and matches the impact, kind of going back to “Done is better than perfect”. If the one thing you can do is remember to bring your bags. I’m a big Trader Joe’s fan and you can bring your bags to Trader Joe’s now that you can start doing that again. That’s still more than getting the paper bags. So doing anything is better than doing nothing. And I think if you know you’re doing it for the right reasons, and you’re trying to kind of silence the voices who are telling you what about the water, what about the animals, what about this, what about electricity, what about gardening, what about everything? Just take what you can for where you are and know that it’s one thing that you’re doing that is a choice to be doing rather than a passive decision.

Brandy Montague 41:17
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and want to be a part of this conversation too. Just a reminder that there are two ways right now that you can do that. Jae and I will be hosting a room together on clubhouse next Tuesday, March 30 at 12 o’clock Pacific Standard Time, called “Sustainability and me: What is your why?” And I would love it so much if you are on the clubhouse app if you would come over and join us and tell us what your why is and just help us continue this conversation.

Brandy Montague 41:58
If you’re not on clubhouse, I have the option for you to leave the voice memo, and that is something that I would so love for you to do too, because I really am excited about this idea of doing a RoundUp episode in which we all share what our why’s are. And learn from each other and just gain inspiration from each other, and if it works, then we can do future roundup episodes like that on lots of different topics, so I hope you are up for doing that. You can do that again at anchor.fm/ForAnimalsForEarth. Of course, the link will be in the description and the show notes, and if neither of those two options work for you, but you’re really dying to have this conversation, you can jump over and join our private community. I am just beta testing the private community right now so it’s really really in its infancy stages, but if you are interested you can join us at foranimalsforearth.com/privatecommunity. Okay, thank you so much, again, from the bottom of my heart for being here and listening and supporting the show. I will see you next week. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai